Two recent Email replies from Chance Brothers Australia http://chancebrothers.com/
Was it usual practice to salvage or destroy decommissioned lenses for scrap back in 1948?
"I doubt lenses were destroyed when decommissioned. Most like it survived but the cast iron base or clockwork could be scrapped. NZ maritime took it out and put in storage and loan to museum or lighthouse keeper or staff took possession as a souvenir which could still survive in private hands. It would only be discarded if it was damaged beyond repair by storm , etc."
How much would it cost to re-construct such a lens from these plans?
"Building exact lens is not out of reach. If anyone can build it using original lenses. Its would be us. It may take time. Years perhaps but it is doable to build such an authentic lens and it may costs around 200k USD. Some brass parts will need to be machined new but the important thing is the lens prism must be authentic. The dome is Chance as there are vents, flues to work with the oil lamps. NZ at the time of designing the tower would have incorporated the lens and lantern-room dome from Chance. All lantern-room were sent out in parts to be assembled onsite. Only the tower were made locally either in timber or masonry. When you mention changed from oil lamp to gas, its acetylene gas with an AGA flashing burner which we have plenty of for future use. Flash sequence to identify that particular to mariners. Aga, Sweden and Barbier Bernard. The French also made domes but unlikely for your case."
Recent reply from Helen Beaglehole (Historian and author of "Lighting the Coast: A history of New Zealand's coastal lighthouse system")
"Finding what happened to obsolete lighthouse equipment is difficult. I suspect the Pipitea Service Depot was used by the Marine Department. However, you must remember that from fairly early on, local harbour boards were responsible for their harbour lights. Might relevant details be held locally?
A change in government agency may also have added complexities to the picture.In 1990, the Lighthouse Service was absorbed into the Ministry of Transport and the new Maritime Safety Authority (to become the Maritime New Zealand) was established. Might the then harbour board have given files to Archives New Zealand? Was the Napier light never made over to the harbour board? As I was not writing about harbour lights I don’t know that one.
The picture also becomes more complicated because some lighthouse keepers did take stuff and stored it in their garages. They were worried about it being destroyed. On the other hand, where it went was not recorded, and storage in cardboard boxes in garages would not have been ideal. Of course, the Napier Harbour light was not watched, so I do not know if anyone felt that degree of familiarity and association to want to do that."
Earlier reply from Jim Foye (Maritime New Zealand)
"The Marine Store was a lighthouse equipment store for spares, it also housed the training area, the last one was in Petone. So not a shop, but a place they kept spare equipment that could be used on lighthouse stations. The reason they asked for Napier equipment to be transferred to the store would have been so they could use it on other lighthouses. A lot of the equipment ended up in museums, and as often happens when things become old and obsolete they may have given them away or been scrapped – the lighthouse keepers also seemed to keep a lot of the smaller equipment like burners etc.."
"The drawing is a photograph of the original back in the 1960’s. the original drawing appears damaged, I would expect the top reflectors to match the bottom. Have you managed to find an actual image of the lens on site to confirm the drawing? The only close optic we have is at Kahurangi, this was installed after the Murchison earthquake, but I haven’t had time to look if the works for when the Napier one was removed. The one at Cape Saunders was a 4th but doesn’t match the drawing."
Recent reply from Jim Foye (Maritime New Zealand)
Pipit Point was the Marine department store, so this is consistent with the earlier letter requesting the optic and all equipment be sent to the Marine Department store.
I think the second letter is referring to the Napier lights flasher mechanism (light source) rather than the optic.
The closest optics to the MD4601 drawing supplied earlier, are:
1. Kahurangi – This is the closes to the drawing but the optic was installed in 1931 after the Murchison earthquake so the timing doesn’t really work – but I could call back the archive files just in case it was replaced in 1931 and then again after 1949?
2. Cape Foulwind – This tower was replaced in 1926, the old optic is in the Westport Museum – but once again installed earlier than 1949.
3. Cape Saunders – The lantern room from Kaipara was installed in 1967 – I haven’t looked into were this optic came from yet but does not match the drawing hence why a photo might be useful if we could find one.
Unfortunately nothing new at this end yet, but will keep looking
Recent reply from Tim Skinner (Vice president of the Marine Archaeological Association of New Zealand)
"So far our local MAANZ lighthouse expert has sent me the following email:
No lantern was in the collection that came to us (Hikitia) from the Marine Dept store that had wound up in the OPT, even though we have components from at least five different lanternhouses when we looked into the fate of components of the decommissioned Kaipara North Head, it was clear enough that the lantern was moved about by the Marine Dept initially to Cape Saunders and then into the Port Chalmers museum; this may have been a fourth-order light."
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
"I’m not sure how I can help find your lens, but it is possible to create a basic 3D image from the drawing below. I do have a question though, since the top of the lens is cut off in the drawing.
Typical 4th order lenses contained the center belt lens with 2 prisms above this belt lens and 2 prisms below, which it shows in the drawing. They also had 3 separate reflecting prisms below, at the very bottom of the lens. And 5 separate reflecting prisms at the top. The drawing shows the 3 prism below very clearly in the “Section View”, and it appears there were 3 prisms above, but typically there were 5 prisms above. Was this lens unique, having only 3 prisms above, or is the drawing simply cut off, not showing the full 5 prisms?"
Also these plans are from 1912 when the lens was converted to gas. Maybe this drawing is just about that particular part where things are changing. That why the top is missing? It also says on the plan showing “Part of lantern”
"Yes, I think you are correct, this is just a partial view, so more than likely it did have 5 prisms above. Looking closer, I’m pretty certain this was a 180 degree lens, but there was only one reflector that covered the whole back side, or also 180 degrees. You can see this in the “Reflector Back View”. This style reflector simply hung on the frame with no hinge. The curved framework behind the reflector was there just as a back support for the lens frame.
I’m getting a much clearer picture of what this lens looked like. The unique feature would be the 180 degree reflector that hung on the back. That may make it easier to track down. Yes, correct, this one is a flashing lens. It looks like a 270 degree lens with one blank.
As I mentioned in the last email, it first looked like your lens was a 180 degree with two reflectors, but it could be similar to this with only one. Also, the lens below, that brass curved plate is not a reflector. It’s just a plate to block the light from escaping through that panel. That way, when this lens rotates, it creates 3 flashes and a short eclipse. Spherical reflectors bounce the light back through the focal point, or light source to intensify the light that transmits through the optical panels."
I want to get a basic simple 3D animation made so people can see what the lens looks like with the gas burner thing on there and everything in detail. Then I want to put that on my website and then contact museums. Do you do computer animations of lenses? Or do I contact a computer animation company for that?
"Yes, I can but it’s been a while. If you can get more detailed drawings of the lens that would be helpful. Below is a link to an animation I did 9 years ago."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r0CKM-4tTI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmfFRpyvyQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bAjEgMewZM
Do you think one would be able to track down an optic lens like this? Also Is $250,000 a realistic value for this lens and how much would a reproduction cost?
"And yes, I think it’s realist. Other lighthouses have tracked down their original lens, but it can be tough and a bit of luck. I think $250,000 is a realistic value if you consider what it would cost to reproduce it today in glass. But, I’m sure you could purchase it for much less. There are other collectors, some private and some lighthouse museums, and I’m pretty sure they don’t pay that much for the lenses they find.
From the drawing, your lens looks like a 180 degree lens with two spherical reflectors in back. If that’s the case a 4th order reproduction of this style would be between $40,000 to $50,000. That’s with acrylic prisms. I know a glass artisan in Rhode Island that can manufacture the glass prisms, but the they cost much more, around 7 times the cost of acrylic."
Recent Email replies from Chance Brothers Australia http://chancebrothers.com/
"Lens should be center belt with 2 dioptric above and 2 below belt. Then 6 catadioptric on top and 3 catadioptruc at the bottom. We have lens cross section drawings on file. I will try dig it up. Will make 3d modelling easy as solidworks can spin the cross section on the vertical axis and u will have the prisms.
Tim"
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
'That’s a surprise…5 catadioptric prisms were more common, but occasionally I’ve seen them with 6. Recently I built one for the Copper Harbor Lighthouse in Michigan and several years ago for the Harbor Beach Lighthouse, also in Michigan. It’s really nice Chance Brothers is helping out with this. I’ll wait for the drawing.
Recent reply from Elizabeth Pishief (Historic Places Aotearoa Hawke's Bay)
As from Friday June 4 2021 the original Napier lighthouse site with the remaining hexagon concrete foundation "has today been registered as an archaeological site"
Recent reply from Archives NZ which proves that this Lens has survived the demolition and was prepared to be transported to a marine storage facility in Wellington in 1948
"There are a couple of mentions relating to the lens at the very end (chronologically latest) of the file suggesting that various parts of the Bluff Hill site were shipped to the Marine Store at Pipitea Point in Wellington around the end of 1948. It is not confirmed from the context that this transportation took place or whether anything happened to the transported materials if it did."
This letter (late 1949) states that the Napier lens had been used at a different lighthouse location? Whatever happened after the light arrived in Wellington early January 1949 is not clear because the light was actually not used in a different coastal location in New Zealand as it appears because it is not accounted for. This file below is the last file that could be retrieved from after the demolition. After 1949, there is no longer communications about this lens and no other files with Archive NZ.
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
"It sounds like the lens had an occulting device that rotated around the lamp, blocking then revealing the light, giving it a flashing characteristic. It also had a red sector, usually attached to the lantern room windows, but could be attached to the lens."
Our records show that this light belongs to the Government
Consignment - note from 10/13.01.1949 confirms the delivery of items from the lighthouse site to the Wellington Marine store on Pipiea Point.
Original plans of the lens are below gratefully recovered and supplied by Maritime New Zealand
https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/
Email to United States Lighthouse Society
I am looking for a 1874 4th order Chance Brothers Fresnel Lens that was lost in New Zealand (Napier) in 1948. It is a two panel lens with two 90 degrees panels. I have attached a 3D image taken from an original drawing’ thanks to (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses) and a link to my website. I am prepared to purchase this lens for full market value if this lens can be relocated. There will be previous drill hole evidence on one of the left hand side frame pieces from a bracket that was added at some stage in 1912. A plan of this location is also attached. Have you ever seen such a lens?
Please pass this email and my website link on to other museums or collectors if you like, maybe someone else can help with this ambitious “Quest".
http://www.napierlighthouse.co.nz
Cheers from New Zealand
Napier Lighthouseman:-)
Hi again Michael
I made a typing mistake, I am looking for a 4th order, not 3rd order, that was a mistake. The 4th order lens below is one I found in Tasmania. Our lens looks just like this lens below. The copper bowl is missing in that picture though, cheers
Recent email communication from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
Hi Dan
Have a look at this dome Dan. I found this picture online in UK somewhere taken in 2009. I just googled earth and had a look. Only 13 years ago. That dome looks like ours but it is not of course but how can something like this end up in a junk yard like that? I would buy right now just for the sake of it:-) What an amazing picture that is…………..
Reply:
Very cool. I looked on Google earth at the location. I’m sure the image is a few years old but it appears to be there. It’s hard to tell in a photo, but a 4th order lantern room is at least 6 feet (180 cm) in diameter. You would have to make sure it’s at least that big. It’s a long way from you though. Manufacturing one locally may be simpler?
Reply:
Hi Dan
Yes I googled it as well but I could not see, will try again. If that is still there I will try to buy it. I think it is too small however. Looks more like a 5th order dome maybe? If it is the right size, I will buy it!…..if it is still there that is:-)
I have however contacted a couple of local engineers to see if they can do the job in copper and steel framing. A original dome of course would be nicer I guess.
I will try to contact the property owner next week if I can track him or her down, cheers
Reply:
Sorry, I forgot to attach the image. It looks like that may be the lantern room circled in red. I can see the tires that appear in the close up photos you sent.
Hi Dan
One more question. The drawing below shows nothing below the glass and framing, yet the dome in the UK has this bit below that. Did this slide into the top of the lighthouse with only the glass and framing exposed?
I am trying to make sense or establish of how the dome would have fitted onto the sole plate and if this dome could in fact be even ours?
Cheers
Typically the smaller lantern rooms had a short wall about 3 feet high. Then the glass windows were also about 3 feet tall above that. The lens was elevated to the window height by the pedestal. The lantern room in England does look like the drawing below. Same shape and style windows. I do see what looks like a masonry sill at the bottom of your lantern room windows. The one in England has a metal wall below the windows. But it sure is close.
I’m really not sure how they originally installed the lens. I know there is usually a small door in that 3 foot wall to get out on the cat walk. And also a hatch in the floor. But they weren’t big enough for the lens to fit through. They may have put the lantern room dome on after the lens was in place?
My name is Ralph Rataul and I am the part-time collections cataloguer
for the Coaltown Museum in Westport. In regard to your search for the
original Napier Lighthouse fresnel lens, I have double-checked our
maritime assemblage and have not located a whole (or partial)
4th-order lens. We do, however, have a large fresnel lens on exhibit,
and for your records I have taken a couple of photos of this lens and
the small amount of associated label copy. This lens is apparently the
second one that was formerly installed at the Buller region's Cape
Foulwind lighthouse
(https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/public/history/lighthouses/Cape-Foulwind/default.asp#history).
Wishing you all the very best in your efforts towards recreating the
replica lighthouse; hopefully the original lens will soon resurface!
Ngā mihi, Ralph Rataul
Email reply from New Zealand Maritime Museum
Hello
We don’t appear to have any 4th order lighthouse lens in the collection. The nearest to that we have is the 5th order lens believed to be from Bean Rock Lighthouse which is on display in the museum.
There is a very remote chance that it is hiding at the back of a container of unprocessed lighthouse objects, which we will be working on later this year, but to the best of my knowledge, all those lenses were donated to the museum by the Auckland Harbour Board and are from the Auckland region.
Regards,
Nick Keenleyside
Collections Specialist
Reply: Hi again Nick
It can also be that the lens was used in the Auckland region somewhere as a harbour light maybe after our lighthouse demolition 1949? Jim Foye said that it could have been used anywhere in NZ so there is a possibility that it might be in that container:-) Even if I cling on to straws here:-)
And here is the dome that is missing. This one is the Kaipara North Head lantern room (Originally Hokitika) about a 2m diameter. The Napier Dome is identical, maybe it is in that container as well, I be amazed, cheers
Reply:
Thank you so much for your reply and I will wait in anticipatiion until this container is opened. It would be so amazing to still find this in NZ. I have been looking in museums all over the world for this lens Nicholas, for years. I believe it was sold overseas long ago but you just never know……..
In polished copper this dome would look something like that again…………………
Email to Nelson Port
I have been researching the Napier Lighthouse for a number of years. The Boulder Bank Lighthouse was the only other 4th order lens in the country. The lens below appears to your lens which is similar to the Napier lens that is missing.
I wonder if it is possible to get more pictures of this lens for my research.www.napierlighthouse.co.nz
Have you seen a lens like that anywhere around Nelson? I am working with Maritime NZ on this (Jim Foye)
Is there anybody that could attend to my inquiry or someone that is interested in Maritime history in your port? We really want to recover our lens in Napier so we can built a replica in front of our port here in Napier, cheers
Was it usual practice to salvage or destroy decommissioned lenses for scrap back in 1948?
"I doubt lenses were destroyed when decommissioned. Most like it survived but the cast iron base or clockwork could be scrapped. NZ maritime took it out and put in storage and loan to museum or lighthouse keeper or staff took possession as a souvenir which could still survive in private hands. It would only be discarded if it was damaged beyond repair by storm , etc."
How much would it cost to re-construct such a lens from these plans?
"Building exact lens is not out of reach. If anyone can build it using original lenses. Its would be us. It may take time. Years perhaps but it is doable to build such an authentic lens and it may costs around 200k USD. Some brass parts will need to be machined new but the important thing is the lens prism must be authentic. The dome is Chance as there are vents, flues to work with the oil lamps. NZ at the time of designing the tower would have incorporated the lens and lantern-room dome from Chance. All lantern-room were sent out in parts to be assembled onsite. Only the tower were made locally either in timber or masonry. When you mention changed from oil lamp to gas, its acetylene gas with an AGA flashing burner which we have plenty of for future use. Flash sequence to identify that particular to mariners. Aga, Sweden and Barbier Bernard. The French also made domes but unlikely for your case."
Recent reply from Helen Beaglehole (Historian and author of "Lighting the Coast: A history of New Zealand's coastal lighthouse system")
"Finding what happened to obsolete lighthouse equipment is difficult. I suspect the Pipitea Service Depot was used by the Marine Department. However, you must remember that from fairly early on, local harbour boards were responsible for their harbour lights. Might relevant details be held locally?
A change in government agency may also have added complexities to the picture.In 1990, the Lighthouse Service was absorbed into the Ministry of Transport and the new Maritime Safety Authority (to become the Maritime New Zealand) was established. Might the then harbour board have given files to Archives New Zealand? Was the Napier light never made over to the harbour board? As I was not writing about harbour lights I don’t know that one.
The picture also becomes more complicated because some lighthouse keepers did take stuff and stored it in their garages. They were worried about it being destroyed. On the other hand, where it went was not recorded, and storage in cardboard boxes in garages would not have been ideal. Of course, the Napier Harbour light was not watched, so I do not know if anyone felt that degree of familiarity and association to want to do that."
Earlier reply from Jim Foye (Maritime New Zealand)
"The Marine Store was a lighthouse equipment store for spares, it also housed the training area, the last one was in Petone. So not a shop, but a place they kept spare equipment that could be used on lighthouse stations. The reason they asked for Napier equipment to be transferred to the store would have been so they could use it on other lighthouses. A lot of the equipment ended up in museums, and as often happens when things become old and obsolete they may have given them away or been scrapped – the lighthouse keepers also seemed to keep a lot of the smaller equipment like burners etc.."
"The drawing is a photograph of the original back in the 1960’s. the original drawing appears damaged, I would expect the top reflectors to match the bottom. Have you managed to find an actual image of the lens on site to confirm the drawing? The only close optic we have is at Kahurangi, this was installed after the Murchison earthquake, but I haven’t had time to look if the works for when the Napier one was removed. The one at Cape Saunders was a 4th but doesn’t match the drawing."
Recent reply from Jim Foye (Maritime New Zealand)
Pipit Point was the Marine department store, so this is consistent with the earlier letter requesting the optic and all equipment be sent to the Marine Department store.
I think the second letter is referring to the Napier lights flasher mechanism (light source) rather than the optic.
The closest optics to the MD4601 drawing supplied earlier, are:
1. Kahurangi – This is the closes to the drawing but the optic was installed in 1931 after the Murchison earthquake so the timing doesn’t really work – but I could call back the archive files just in case it was replaced in 1931 and then again after 1949?
2. Cape Foulwind – This tower was replaced in 1926, the old optic is in the Westport Museum – but once again installed earlier than 1949.
3. Cape Saunders – The lantern room from Kaipara was installed in 1967 – I haven’t looked into were this optic came from yet but does not match the drawing hence why a photo might be useful if we could find one.
Unfortunately nothing new at this end yet, but will keep looking
Recent reply from Tim Skinner (Vice president of the Marine Archaeological Association of New Zealand)
"So far our local MAANZ lighthouse expert has sent me the following email:
No lantern was in the collection that came to us (Hikitia) from the Marine Dept store that had wound up in the OPT, even though we have components from at least five different lanternhouses when we looked into the fate of components of the decommissioned Kaipara North Head, it was clear enough that the lantern was moved about by the Marine Dept initially to Cape Saunders and then into the Port Chalmers museum; this may have been a fourth-order light."
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
"I’m not sure how I can help find your lens, but it is possible to create a basic 3D image from the drawing below. I do have a question though, since the top of the lens is cut off in the drawing.
Typical 4th order lenses contained the center belt lens with 2 prisms above this belt lens and 2 prisms below, which it shows in the drawing. They also had 3 separate reflecting prisms below, at the very bottom of the lens. And 5 separate reflecting prisms at the top. The drawing shows the 3 prism below very clearly in the “Section View”, and it appears there were 3 prisms above, but typically there were 5 prisms above. Was this lens unique, having only 3 prisms above, or is the drawing simply cut off, not showing the full 5 prisms?"
Also these plans are from 1912 when the lens was converted to gas. Maybe this drawing is just about that particular part where things are changing. That why the top is missing? It also says on the plan showing “Part of lantern”
"Yes, I think you are correct, this is just a partial view, so more than likely it did have 5 prisms above. Looking closer, I’m pretty certain this was a 180 degree lens, but there was only one reflector that covered the whole back side, or also 180 degrees. You can see this in the “Reflector Back View”. This style reflector simply hung on the frame with no hinge. The curved framework behind the reflector was there just as a back support for the lens frame.
I’m getting a much clearer picture of what this lens looked like. The unique feature would be the 180 degree reflector that hung on the back. That may make it easier to track down. Yes, correct, this one is a flashing lens. It looks like a 270 degree lens with one blank.
As I mentioned in the last email, it first looked like your lens was a 180 degree with two reflectors, but it could be similar to this with only one. Also, the lens below, that brass curved plate is not a reflector. It’s just a plate to block the light from escaping through that panel. That way, when this lens rotates, it creates 3 flashes and a short eclipse. Spherical reflectors bounce the light back through the focal point, or light source to intensify the light that transmits through the optical panels."
I want to get a basic simple 3D animation made so people can see what the lens looks like with the gas burner thing on there and everything in detail. Then I want to put that on my website and then contact museums. Do you do computer animations of lenses? Or do I contact a computer animation company for that?
"Yes, I can but it’s been a while. If you can get more detailed drawings of the lens that would be helpful. Below is a link to an animation I did 9 years ago."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r0CKM-4tTI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmfFRpyvyQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bAjEgMewZM
Do you think one would be able to track down an optic lens like this? Also Is $250,000 a realistic value for this lens and how much would a reproduction cost?
"And yes, I think it’s realist. Other lighthouses have tracked down their original lens, but it can be tough and a bit of luck. I think $250,000 is a realistic value if you consider what it would cost to reproduce it today in glass. But, I’m sure you could purchase it for much less. There are other collectors, some private and some lighthouse museums, and I’m pretty sure they don’t pay that much for the lenses they find.
From the drawing, your lens looks like a 180 degree lens with two spherical reflectors in back. If that’s the case a 4th order reproduction of this style would be between $40,000 to $50,000. That’s with acrylic prisms. I know a glass artisan in Rhode Island that can manufacture the glass prisms, but the they cost much more, around 7 times the cost of acrylic."
Recent Email replies from Chance Brothers Australia http://chancebrothers.com/
"Lens should be center belt with 2 dioptric above and 2 below belt. Then 6 catadioptric on top and 3 catadioptruc at the bottom. We have lens cross section drawings on file. I will try dig it up. Will make 3d modelling easy as solidworks can spin the cross section on the vertical axis and u will have the prisms.
Tim"
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
'That’s a surprise…5 catadioptric prisms were more common, but occasionally I’ve seen them with 6. Recently I built one for the Copper Harbor Lighthouse in Michigan and several years ago for the Harbor Beach Lighthouse, also in Michigan. It’s really nice Chance Brothers is helping out with this. I’ll wait for the drawing.
Recent reply from Elizabeth Pishief (Historic Places Aotearoa Hawke's Bay)
As from Friday June 4 2021 the original Napier lighthouse site with the remaining hexagon concrete foundation "has today been registered as an archaeological site"
Recent reply from Archives NZ which proves that this Lens has survived the demolition and was prepared to be transported to a marine storage facility in Wellington in 1948
"There are a couple of mentions relating to the lens at the very end (chronologically latest) of the file suggesting that various parts of the Bluff Hill site were shipped to the Marine Store at Pipitea Point in Wellington around the end of 1948. It is not confirmed from the context that this transportation took place or whether anything happened to the transported materials if it did."
This letter (late 1949) states that the Napier lens had been used at a different lighthouse location? Whatever happened after the light arrived in Wellington early January 1949 is not clear because the light was actually not used in a different coastal location in New Zealand as it appears because it is not accounted for. This file below is the last file that could be retrieved from after the demolition. After 1949, there is no longer communications about this lens and no other files with Archive NZ.
Recent reply from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
"It sounds like the lens had an occulting device that rotated around the lamp, blocking then revealing the light, giving it a flashing characteristic. It also had a red sector, usually attached to the lantern room windows, but could be attached to the lens."
Our records show that this light belongs to the Government
Consignment - note from 10/13.01.1949 confirms the delivery of items from the lighthouse site to the Wellington Marine store on Pipiea Point.
Original plans of the lens are below gratefully recovered and supplied by Maritime New Zealand
https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/
Email to United States Lighthouse Society
I am looking for a 1874 4th order Chance Brothers Fresnel Lens that was lost in New Zealand (Napier) in 1948. It is a two panel lens with two 90 degrees panels. I have attached a 3D image taken from an original drawing’ thanks to (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses) and a link to my website. I am prepared to purchase this lens for full market value if this lens can be relocated. There will be previous drill hole evidence on one of the left hand side frame pieces from a bracket that was added at some stage in 1912. A plan of this location is also attached. Have you ever seen such a lens?
Please pass this email and my website link on to other museums or collectors if you like, maybe someone else can help with this ambitious “Quest".
http://www.napierlighthouse.co.nz
Cheers from New Zealand
Napier Lighthouseman:-)
Hi again Michael
I made a typing mistake, I am looking for a 4th order, not 3rd order, that was a mistake. The 4th order lens below is one I found in Tasmania. Our lens looks just like this lens below. The copper bowl is missing in that picture though, cheers
Recent email communication from Dan Spinella (Artworks Florida Classic Fresnel Lenses, LLC Florida USA) https://www.artworks-florida.com/design
Hi Dan
Have a look at this dome Dan. I found this picture online in UK somewhere taken in 2009. I just googled earth and had a look. Only 13 years ago. That dome looks like ours but it is not of course but how can something like this end up in a junk yard like that? I would buy right now just for the sake of it:-) What an amazing picture that is…………..
Reply:
Very cool. I looked on Google earth at the location. I’m sure the image is a few years old but it appears to be there. It’s hard to tell in a photo, but a 4th order lantern room is at least 6 feet (180 cm) in diameter. You would have to make sure it’s at least that big. It’s a long way from you though. Manufacturing one locally may be simpler?
Reply:
Hi Dan
Yes I googled it as well but I could not see, will try again. If that is still there I will try to buy it. I think it is too small however. Looks more like a 5th order dome maybe? If it is the right size, I will buy it!…..if it is still there that is:-)
I have however contacted a couple of local engineers to see if they can do the job in copper and steel framing. A original dome of course would be nicer I guess.
I will try to contact the property owner next week if I can track him or her down, cheers
Reply:
Sorry, I forgot to attach the image. It looks like that may be the lantern room circled in red. I can see the tires that appear in the close up photos you sent.
Hi Dan
One more question. The drawing below shows nothing below the glass and framing, yet the dome in the UK has this bit below that. Did this slide into the top of the lighthouse with only the glass and framing exposed?
I am trying to make sense or establish of how the dome would have fitted onto the sole plate and if this dome could in fact be even ours?
Cheers
Typically the smaller lantern rooms had a short wall about 3 feet high. Then the glass windows were also about 3 feet tall above that. The lens was elevated to the window height by the pedestal. The lantern room in England does look like the drawing below. Same shape and style windows. I do see what looks like a masonry sill at the bottom of your lantern room windows. The one in England has a metal wall below the windows. But it sure is close.
I’m really not sure how they originally installed the lens. I know there is usually a small door in that 3 foot wall to get out on the cat walk. And also a hatch in the floor. But they weren’t big enough for the lens to fit through. They may have put the lantern room dome on after the lens was in place?
My name is Ralph Rataul and I am the part-time collections cataloguer
for the Coaltown Museum in Westport. In regard to your search for the
original Napier Lighthouse fresnel lens, I have double-checked our
maritime assemblage and have not located a whole (or partial)
4th-order lens. We do, however, have a large fresnel lens on exhibit,
and for your records I have taken a couple of photos of this lens and
the small amount of associated label copy. This lens is apparently the
second one that was formerly installed at the Buller region's Cape
Foulwind lighthouse
(https://www.maritimenz.govt.nz/public/history/lighthouses/Cape-Foulwind/default.asp#history).
Wishing you all the very best in your efforts towards recreating the
replica lighthouse; hopefully the original lens will soon resurface!
Ngā mihi, Ralph Rataul
Email reply from New Zealand Maritime Museum
Hello
We don’t appear to have any 4th order lighthouse lens in the collection. The nearest to that we have is the 5th order lens believed to be from Bean Rock Lighthouse which is on display in the museum.
There is a very remote chance that it is hiding at the back of a container of unprocessed lighthouse objects, which we will be working on later this year, but to the best of my knowledge, all those lenses were donated to the museum by the Auckland Harbour Board and are from the Auckland region.
Regards,
Nick Keenleyside
Collections Specialist
Reply: Hi again Nick
It can also be that the lens was used in the Auckland region somewhere as a harbour light maybe after our lighthouse demolition 1949? Jim Foye said that it could have been used anywhere in NZ so there is a possibility that it might be in that container:-) Even if I cling on to straws here:-)
And here is the dome that is missing. This one is the Kaipara North Head lantern room (Originally Hokitika) about a 2m diameter. The Napier Dome is identical, maybe it is in that container as well, I be amazed, cheers
Reply:
Thank you so much for your reply and I will wait in anticipatiion until this container is opened. It would be so amazing to still find this in NZ. I have been looking in museums all over the world for this lens Nicholas, for years. I believe it was sold overseas long ago but you just never know……..
In polished copper this dome would look something like that again…………………
Email to Nelson Port
I have been researching the Napier Lighthouse for a number of years. The Boulder Bank Lighthouse was the only other 4th order lens in the country. The lens below appears to your lens which is similar to the Napier lens that is missing.
I wonder if it is possible to get more pictures of this lens for my research.www.napierlighthouse.co.nz
Have you seen a lens like that anywhere around Nelson? I am working with Maritime NZ on this (Jim Foye)
Is there anybody that could attend to my inquiry or someone that is interested in Maritime history in your port? We really want to recover our lens in Napier so we can built a replica in front of our port here in Napier, cheers
